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	<title>Comments on: Who Will Watch The Watchmen?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/</link>
	<description>Completing the perspective on Mixed Martial Arts</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 05:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hackett</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-16119</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hackett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-16119</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I think his response was fair. 

T Jay Thompson's interview on Elite XC's demise is pretty painful. Asked about the media being unfair, he answers: "We did such a rotten job. We made ourselves susceptible to that." 

http://www.sportsline.com/mma/story/11060710/1

TH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I think his response was fair. </p>
<p>T Jay Thompson&#8217;s interview on Elite XC&#8217;s demise is pretty painful. Asked about the media being unfair, he answers: &#8220;We did such a rotten job. We made ourselves susceptible to that.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.sportsline.com/mma/story/11060710/1" rel="nofollow">http://www.sportsline.com/mma/story/11060710/1</a></p>
<p>TH</p>
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		<title>By: Kendall Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-16046</link>
		<dc:creator>Kendall Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-16046</guid>
		<description>In my experience, Dave Meltzer will answer even the most inane email questions.  He's answered a couple of mine that, looking back, were really, really stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience, Dave Meltzer will answer even the most inane email questions.  He&#8217;s answered a couple of mine that, looking back, were really, really stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Conceicao</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-16016</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Conceicao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-16016</guid>
		<description>To Dave Meltzer's credit, he answered. Just without, you know, really answering the questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Dave Meltzer&#8217;s credit, he answered. Just without, you know, really answering the questions.</p>
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		<title>By: bloggeeks</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-16004</link>
		<dc:creator>bloggeeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 05:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-16004</guid>
		<description>A) They probably won’t answer (Meltzer certainly won’t).

Looks like you were wrong, jackass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A) They probably won’t answer (Meltzer certainly won’t).</p>
<p>Looks like you were wrong, jackass.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Blockhead</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-16003</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Blockhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-16003</guid>
		<description>"I’m talking about bonuses that are perfectly legal but not publicized.
But they still change the mentality of how a fighter approaches a fight."


The bonuses change how a fighter approaches the fight, we all agree. That cheats the fans. I know you think it delivers a "better show" provided your better is the same as Zuffa's "great". I know that Leben has gotten a number of FOTN bonuses for plodding, sloppy brawls. I know that Dana White has gushed over Rob Emersons marginal skills. It hurts the fans because it impacts the fights. It stifles style development (why hone your technique if the sloppy boxing gets you paid more? why develop ground skills if you and your opponent are both fighting for the bonus, meaning you'll be staying upright?) It impacts fight strategy, which de facto impacts fight outcome. Not only that, it does so in a way that is not transparent. In doing so, it cheats the fans.

From having read the Observer in the past, I imagine that Dave might put forward the argument that all/most professional sports do this: find ways to make things more exciting. Yes, that's true and I'd never argue it. But there's a difference. The shot clock in basketball was a rule change that impacted everyone equally and was made clear to the fans. The changes to the NHL rule-book a few years back were above-board, transparent changes in rules, not in how they would be enforced. Secret bonuses are not in the same category as this, it's more in line with the steroid scandal in baseball, certain people are getting a benefit that the fan isn't aware of. It's stacking the deck, while the fans are left thinking that the deck is shuffled cleanly.

I may not have liked all the rule changes that came with the unified rule set, but I can live with them. Why? Because I know what they are and, to the extent humanly possible, they are equally enforced (some exceptions, to which there is usually a public outcry). These secret bonuses, hell, even the not-so-secret bonuses, are new rules that are unknown to the fan and not necessarily enforced equally. Anyone who is a fight fan should object to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m talking about bonuses that are perfectly legal but not publicized.<br />
But they still change the mentality of how a fighter approaches a fight.&#8221;</p>
<p>The bonuses change how a fighter approaches the fight, we all agree. That cheats the fans. I know you think it delivers a &#8220;better show&#8221; provided your better is the same as Zuffa&#8217;s &#8220;great&#8221;. I know that Leben has gotten a number of FOTN bonuses for plodding, sloppy brawls. I know that Dana White has gushed over Rob Emersons marginal skills. It hurts the fans because it impacts the fights. It stifles style development (why hone your technique if the sloppy boxing gets you paid more? why develop ground skills if you and your opponent are both fighting for the bonus, meaning you&#8217;ll be staying upright?) It impacts fight strategy, which de facto impacts fight outcome. Not only that, it does so in a way that is not transparent. In doing so, it cheats the fans.</p>
<p>From having read the Observer in the past, I imagine that Dave might put forward the argument that all/most professional sports do this: find ways to make things more exciting. Yes, that&#8217;s true and I&#8217;d never argue it. But there&#8217;s a difference. The shot clock in basketball was a rule change that impacted everyone equally and was made clear to the fans. The changes to the NHL rule-book a few years back were above-board, transparent changes in rules, not in how they would be enforced. Secret bonuses are not in the same category as this, it&#8217;s more in line with the steroid scandal in baseball, certain people are getting a benefit that the fan isn&#8217;t aware of. It&#8217;s stacking the deck, while the fans are left thinking that the deck is shuffled cleanly.</p>
<p>I may not have liked all the rule changes that came with the unified rule set, but I can live with them. Why? Because I know what they are and, to the extent humanly possible, they are equally enforced (some exceptions, to which there is usually a public outcry). These secret bonuses, hell, even the not-so-secret bonuses, are new rules that are unknown to the fan and not necessarily enforced equally. Anyone who is a fight fan should object to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kendall Shields</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-15996</link>
		<dc:creator>Kendall Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 02:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-15996</guid>
		<description>I think it's perfectly clear how Zuffa defines a great fight.  It's the kind of debased, third-rate Griffin/Bonner, STAND and TRADE nonsense between mediocre kickboxers that they keep telling us is a great fight. The kind of thing it physically hurts a boxing fan to watch. That's a great fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s perfectly clear how Zuffa defines a great fight.  It&#8217;s the kind of debased, third-rate Griffin/Bonner, STAND and TRADE nonsense between mediocre kickboxers that they keep telling us is a great fight. The kind of thing it physically hurts a boxing fan to watch. That&#8217;s a great fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Conceicao</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-15993</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Conceicao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-15993</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;People all know that you will get bonused more if you deliver a “great” fight, but that changes the mindset when you get paid more for “great” than for winning. It’s not illegal and for the fans, it makes for a better show because fighters are encouraged to open up and not play it safe as they would if their money was tied entirely to wins and losses.&lt;/i&gt;

I get why you're speaking in generalities, but there's a little more you could give us. Care to share with us how Zuffa might define a "great fight"? Maybe an example of a fighter who's gotten many of those bonuses? Even an obvious one like Leben would be good. I mean, look at UFC 89. Leben was throughly outboxed and basically allowed himself to fight using a losing gameplan instead of taking down Bisping and perhaps getting the biggest win of his career. He then spoke about how it was the best fight of his career. Do you chart the line of morality at legality?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>People all know that you will get bonused more if you deliver a “great” fight, but that changes the mindset when you get paid more for “great” than for winning. It’s not illegal and for the fans, it makes for a better show because fighters are encouraged to open up and not play it safe as they would if their money was tied entirely to wins and losses.</i></p>
<p>I get why you&#8217;re speaking in generalities, but there&#8217;s a little more you could give us. Care to share with us how Zuffa might define a &#8220;great fight&#8221;? Maybe an example of a fighter who&#8217;s gotten many of those bonuses? Even an obvious one like Leben would be good. I mean, look at UFC 89. Leben was throughly outboxed and basically allowed himself to fight using a losing gameplan instead of taking down Bisping and perhaps getting the biggest win of his career. He then spoke about how it was the best fight of his career. Do you chart the line of morality at legality?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Rome</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-15988</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Rome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-15988</guid>
		<description>To be honest, that would be an explosive thing to publish without confirmation.  I hear things all the time from just one person, I usually hold off posting, especially if it is controversial. 

There's an inherent problem in reporting UFC undisclosed bonuses: very few people know about them besides the UFC and the fighter.  If the fighter tells you, it's almost always in an off the record way.  There aren't enough people that know, if the numbers get reported then the UFC knows the fighter told about them, and there's kind of an implied thing where fighters aren't supposed to disclose numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, that would be an explosive thing to publish without confirmation.  I hear things all the time from just one person, I usually hold off posting, especially if it is controversial. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s an inherent problem in reporting UFC undisclosed bonuses: very few people know about them besides the UFC and the fighter.  If the fighter tells you, it&#8217;s almost always in an off the record way.  There aren&#8217;t enough people that know, if the numbers get reported then the UFC knows the fighter told about them, and there&#8217;s kind of an implied thing where fighters aren&#8217;t supposed to disclose numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Walsh</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-15987</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-15987</guid>
		<description>Also, an on-the-record type thing here; I think holding back on a rumor until you can confirm it, especially in a case like this where something like this would (obviously) destroy the company, is the only way that you can go.

The UFC stuff I think we'd obviously like to hear more about. Also, Dave, since your site went subscriber only for certain stuff a lot of your stuff comes down to copy and paste on other sites and heresy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, an on-the-record type thing here; I think holding back on a rumor until you can confirm it, especially in a case like this where something like this would (obviously) destroy the company, is the only way that you can go.</p>
<p>The UFC stuff I think we&#8217;d obviously like to hear more about. Also, Dave, since your site went subscriber only for certain stuff a lot of your stuff comes down to copy and paste on other sites and heresy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Walsh</title>
		<link>http://www.total-mma.com/2008/10/21/who-will-watch-the-watchmen/#comment-15986</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Walsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.total-mma.com/?p=506#comment-15986</guid>
		<description>Oh man, FL, you really are. I think that Meltz was protecting his sources, to be honest. He has a history of doing that, which works for him.

I still think that it is a valid question to ask if Alvarez or Meltzer would have made this public if Seth didn't spill the beans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh man, FL, you really are. I think that Meltz was protecting his sources, to be honest. He has a history of doing that, which works for him.</p>
<p>I still think that it is a valid question to ask if Alvarez or Meltzer would have made this public if Seth didn&#8217;t spill the beans.</p>
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