Total MMA’s UFC 88 Roundtable
Posted by Lee Casebolt on September 5th, 2008

This Saturday, ZUFFA presents their best-ever lineup of semi-main events and undercard bouts. UFC 88 is stacked top to bottom with compelling matchups in four weight divisions, many with title fight implications. Though it lacks a title bout or the kind of transcendent matchup which would cap off a truly classic card, it’s a night of fights which, on paper, should not disappoint. Our panel -
- CH: Chris Henderson
- AC: Alan Conceicao
- TH: Thomas Hackett
- DW: Dave Walsh
- LC: Lee Casebolt
Chuck Liddell v Rashad Evans
DW: This is really a pretty damned good card, with my only real problem being that the main event isn’t really that big of a main event. The return of Chuck Liddell is a big deal, but a match-up with Rashad is more or less a fight where we get to see where Rashad really stands when it comes to the elite in his weight class, as well as if Chuck still has it. Chuck steamrolled the entire 205lbs division, plowing through everybody UFC threw at him, including Randy Couture — twice. So, it is an interesting main event that I want to see, but I’m not sure how it stacks up when it comes to mainstream appeal. Oh well, we have Brock/Randy coming up, which has a ton of hype behind it.
TH: I’ve been high on Evans for a while now, but… I’m not high. Liddell by knockout, round one. Yeah, Evans is athletic (I know the UFC commentators say that about every black guy, but, it’s actually true this time), his wrestling is impressive, and his striking is pretty sharp too. But I honestly think CHACK is on another level at this point. I’d love to see Rashad turn another corner. and prove me wrong though. Fellow TUF winner Forrest Griffin sure did..
AC: Liddell can age overnight. He’s at that point now. Evans, on the other hand, is a guy I was once convinced would beat Chuck that I no longer see as a major threat. Sure, he has great wrestling credentials and the straight, fast strikes needed to counter Liddell as a counterpuncher, but Liddell as a George Foreman-esque glacial counterpuncher is just all wrong for the guy. Evans is just too small to be able to pull off the upset and I think that his tendency to drop his hands leads to his demise.
CH: I fully expect Dana White to be chewing his nails just a little bit during this one. A dominating win from Chuck sets up a big money fight with Forrest Griffin in late 2008/early 2009. From watching the countdown show last night, Rashad’s alleged gameplan of wanting to stand and bang with Liddell worries me. If he does, I’d expect him to get tagged with some power shots in short order. Inevitably, I’m guessing this ends up much like many of Chuck’s other fights with wrestlers…with Rashad kissing canvas after unsucessfully trying to get the Iceman to the ground. I’d take the money and run with Chuck at these odds. Liddell by TKO in Round 2.
LC: I’m picking Rashad just to be contrary. I think he’s got the wrestling/boxing combination to put a lot of pressure on Liddell and really break up his rhythm, sort of like what Couture did in the first Couture/Liddell fight. Rashad by decision, unless he actually meant that “make it a brawl” nonsense he was spouting on the countdown show. In that case he gets killed in one.
Martin Kampmann v Nathan Marquardt
DW: Kampmann vs. Marquardt is another interesting fight, as Marquardt is the established, well-known and skilled fighter and Kampmann is a guy who has far beyond proven himself and in the past two years has been showing the world what he is capable of in UFC. Kampmann will prove to be a very tough challenge for Nate “The Great,” as Nate’s last hard-fought decision loss against Thale Leites stacks up against Kampmann a bit on the short side, as Kampmann took Thales to a hard-fought decision in his UFC debut. Marquardt, on the other hand, more or less screwed himself out of a decision with a few fouls. Both men are known for their submission skills and hopefully won’t cancel each other out.
TH: The greatest thing about Kampmann’s fights is listening to Mike Goldberg on commentary confusing the Dutch and the Danish. That man makes me so proud to be an American. A list of the great Dutch in the combat sports should include Ernesto Hoost, Bas Rutten, and Lucia Rijker. Great Danes include Ole Laursen, Micheal Kessler, and, uh, Scooby Doo. I understand the Danish (pastry) was re-dubbed “Flower of the Prophet Muhammad” in Fundamentalist Islamic circles. Actually, no I really don’t understand that. Anyway, I’m used to seeing Marquardt take people down and stalemate in the guard, and also, getting beat up by Anderson Silva. I like Kampmann, but he isn’t Anderson Silva, and I don’t see him stopping Nate; so the smart money would seem to be Marquardt by a decision.
AC: One of a number of crossroads fights on the bill. Marquardt losing could put him nearly out of the UFC. Kampmann, meanwhile, is a legit title contender with a win here. I’ve seen plenty of both, but I’m still not one hundred percent on what to expect from Kampmann. Marqhardt has the size and strength though to wreak havoc on the European fighter even if he’s healthy, and with the kind of layoff Kampmann was forced to take, I doubt he’ll ever be 100% again. Marquardt is on his way to being the Babalu of 185, but I guess there are worse things to be.
CH: A tale of two guys going in opposite directions in the UFC middleweight division. Marquardt’s lost two of his last three, even if his last defeat to Thales Leites could be blamed in part on some dodgy point deductions. Kampmann’s 4-0 in the UFC including an impressive dismantling of Jorge Rivera after a long layoff from a serious knee injury. The Dane can do a little bit of everything, but unfortunately for him, so can Marquardt. I think Marquardt’s going to be a little bit better at everything and with his back against the wall, certainly won’t be lacking any motivation. Marquardt’s good value at this price. Marquardt by decision.
LC: Two very well matched fighters who are in the unfortunate position of being extremely talented without having a shot in hell of beating Anderson Silva. Given that this is basically a title eliminator - nobody thinks Marquardt really lost to Leites, no matter what the official result it - I have to root for Kampmann. We’ve already seen Silva murder Marquardt, and I like some variety. Kampmann by TKO; he’s got more power than Marquardt, and that will make the difference.
Rich Franklin v Matt Hammill
DW: Franklin vs. Hammill is a fight I’m sort of on the fence about. Hammill is, as we know, a very good wrestler and a sponge when it comes to fighting, and Franklin is Franklin. While I’m not a fan of Rich Franklin, there is no doubt that he is an accomplished fighter, and was the king of 185lbs for a long time — then along came the Spider, and he looked like a hack. I’ve always seen Franklin as an example of what I don’t want the modern MMA fighter to turn into — kind of alright at everything, but great at nothing. He is essentially a poor man’s GSP; a guy that you could call well-rounded, but nowhere near the level GSP is at in every facet of the sport. Franklin crafted his popularity in the UFC basically by punching Ken Shamrock in the face as he slipped not only on the mat, but Shamrock’s career went into its current losing streak that seems to have no end in sight. In a perfect world Hammill will continue his upward momentum and Franklin will return to his weight class. I’m not sure why UFC wants this fight, as it can ruin Hammill’s momentum and won’t do a damned thing for Franklin.
TH: Franklin is probably badly underrated at this point. Pundits like former Total-MMA contributor Bill Thompson, who may even show up on that goofy TapOut TV show next week, saw no possible way for “Ace” to win against Lutter when the fight hit the mat. Well, we saw otherwise. Here he has an edge in standup, submissions, power, experience, overall athleticism, and size, yet some think the greatest deaf swinger in MMA history will beat him anyway. No way. Ace by T/KO, round two.
AC: Franklin as the old vet taking on Hamill is an interesting dynamic. What is telling for me isn’t Hamill’s size or strength: its his striking. It looked pretty crisp in that first round against Bisping and whenever Franklin encounters someone who can move their head or feet a little, he gets pulverized. Add in what Hamill does well and I think its a grinding decision win for the most famous deaf fighter out.
CH: I get the feeling that this could all blow up in the UFC’s face. We’ve heard for the longest time that one of Franklin’s strengths at 185 was the fact that by match time, Franklin was so much bigger than his opponent. That size advantage has all been wiped out with his move up a weight class. He’s facing a massive wrestler in Hamill who Franklin himself even said in the Countdown show that Hamill had a lot of success in holding him down when the two trained together. Despite the potential pitfalls facing Franklin, I think he’ll ride out an early storm and be able to stop a tiring Hamill late. Franklin by TKO in Round 3, but for gambling purposes, Hamill may be worth a look if the price stays steady.
LC: His protests to the contrary notwithstanding, I think Tommy may in fact be high. Franklin is not larger, more powerful, or more athletic than Hammill. He’s also a mediocre wrestler who’s nothing special on his back. On the other hand, Hammill had a lot of trouble with Michael Bisping, who’s kind of a Rich Franklin-with-a-poor-exchange-rate. Still, when in doubt I always go with the better wrestler, and that’s Hammill. If he doesn’t fall in love with his boxing, where Ace could catch him, Hammill should take this in the third.
Dan Henderson v Rousimar Palhares
DW: Hendo vs. Palhares should be nothing short of incredible. While I haven’t seen all that much of him [Palhares], what I have seen has been incredibly impressive. Both men are incredibly skilled, with Hendo being, well, Hendo. It is hard to doubt him and not admit that he is one of the top fighters in two weight classes right now, and always in pound for pound discussions, even if not listed as a top 10 fighter. I want to see Hendo win, but if Palhares wins it will be incredible and a huge step up for him, and Palhares vs Silva would probably be a lot more interesting than what they have lined up for Silva at the moment.
TH: I’m more interested in this bout than any other on the card, as Rousimar “Toquinho” Palhares has caught a serious buzz. Watch the sudden roll into a leglock in his bout against Fábio “Negão” Nascimento (finish at 3:48). No one’s handled Salaverry on the mat like him either. Sure Ivan was getting older, but so is Hendo. Hey, we all are. I think of Henderson getting taken down by Palhares’ teammates Arona, Noguiera, Nogueria, & Bustamante, and I can see Palhares doing a better job of control than any of them. Then again, Dan has been proving me wrong for more than ten years now, since he beat two of my favorite jiu-jitsu guys at UFC 17: Redemption. He comes in the favorite here, so maybe it’s my time for redemption… why not. Toquinho by submission, round two.
AC: Henderson is getting pretty close to 40 and Palhares is a submission god. Henderson’s top game is obviously enough to win depending on what he has left, but he very easily could turn old overnight, just like Liddell in the main. You have to pick the experience though until otherwise indicated.
CH: Too much, too soon for Palhares. Dan’s never been submitted by any outside of the Nogueiras and Anderson Silva in his last fight. Palhares has never faced anyone close to Henderson’s caliber before and I think it’s going to show on Saturday. Henderson by devastating knockout in the first. These two started out at about even on the odds front, but a lot of the value has been bet out of the fight. I’d still put a little on Dan though.
LC: I love both of these guys, but I don’t think this will be a good fight because of the style contrast. If Hendo keeps it standing for a little while he’ll wreck Palhares. Rousimar’s a submission wizard, but he’s not forty pounds heavier than Hendo, he won’t knock Hendo silly before going to the mat with him, and quite frankly he’s never been in the cage with anyone even vaguely like Dan Henderson. That said, if Palhares pulls off the upset, he needs to be fast-tracked to a title shot ASAP.
Karo Parisyan v Yoshiyuki Yoshida
DW: Karo vs. Yoshida, oh man, poor Karo. I really like Yoshida in this fight, and I am a big Karo fan. Hopefully JUDO~~~ can overcome the odds, but I’m not sure this will be the case. It should be a great fight regardless.
TH:
Do you know who I am, bro?
These guys do. Expect maximum efficiency, minimum effort, and mutual benefit… and a slow g’n'p win by Karo, reminiscent of his cautious performance against Fernando Vasconcelos. I think he knows he’s on the chopping block and will do just enough and not a bit more.
AC: I don’t believe in Yoshiyuki Yoshida. Just don’t. Sorry. Over the long run, I think Boku is the guy from the GCM tourney that will do best, and even the best he can hope for is a career as the welterweight Guy Mezger. Karo’s faced better opposition, faced larger opposition, etc, and he’s not the one who has to adapt to a massive time change. Experience trumps hope everytime when it comes to betting and that’s how I always think with my picks.
CH: There will be judo. It really all depends on if Karo comes in looking like the Marshmallow Man like he has in recent fights. He *says* he’s been (gasp!) training for this fight, which will certainly help, but I get the feeling that if he gets dragged into later rounds, he’ll be in a spot of trouble. I figure Karo to come out like a house of fire before fading late and losing a razor-thin decision. Commence Armenian whining. Yoshida is being heavily undervalued here and is definitely worth an underdog play.
LC: On paper, my favorite fight on the card. There will, as Chris said, be judo. It will, as our illustrious-but-absent Kendall Shields likes to say, be epic. This should be a wild action fight reminicent of Karo’s bouts with Diaz and Sanchez. I think he comes up short, though. All else being equal, Japanese judo trumps American judo. Sorry, Karo.
Kurt Pellegrino v Thiago Tavares
DW: Pellegrino’s loss to Nate Diaz was a tough loss for him, he looked good, but Diaz looked better. I kind of feel like that is always the case when up against one of the Diaz boys, but that might just be me. I am more of a fan of Tavares, to be honest, but both men are in a similar tough spot in the 155lbs division; they have both had some tough losses, but are still talented prospects for the division and their losses are to some of the best UFC has to offer in 155lbs. I could see Tavares eking this one out.
AC: Tavares/Pellegrino is a good UFN undercard bout I suppose.
CH: I will be one of ten people in the arena to actually know who these guys are and care about the fight. There will be groundwork, it will be occasionally slick, and the people of Atlanta will be irredeemably apathetic towards it. I love Pellegrino, but I’ve got to think Tavares will fight a hell of a lot better than he did against Matt Wiman. Not enough to polish Kurt off mind you, but good enough to win a fairly easy decision. There’s better bang for your buck on this card though.
LC: One of those fights that’s just sort of there. It’ll be decent action, but you may have forgotten who won by halfway through the next fight. I like Tavares here, but that’s more because of a lack of faith in Pellegrino than anything else.
Ryo Chonan v Roan Carneiro
DW: Ryo Chonan. GAME OVER. Chonan has a cut stoppage win over Carneiro from 2005 in DEEP, so Carneiro, who has more UFC ring-time, is looking to redeem himself on a much bigger stage. I can see this as being a competitive fight, but I am still a Ryo Chonan fanboy somehow.
AC: Chonan/Carneiro is like a DEEP main event, and I look forward to it even if Chonan has given me no reason to care in forever.
CH: Carneiro was last seen getting triangled by Mr. Gouge Your Eyes Out, while Chonan sucked it up against Karo on that New Jersey UFC that shall never be spoken of again. Let’s hope Jucao doesn’t get submitted so we don’t have to hear Rogan scream about how shocking it is for five minutes. Chonan’s shown a vulnerability to being punched in the head in previous fights and looked horrible in his last fight, so I’ll say Jucao wins by TKO in the second. Odds are basically a coin flip, and I’d say Carneiro’s worth a small bet.
LC: Every time I see Chonan on a card, I hope to see a repeat of the Silva fight and another flying leg scissor heel hook. This Saturday, I will again be disappointed. Most likely Carneiro shoves him into the cage and pummels Chonan into goo.
Dong Hyun Kim v Matt Brown
AC: Kim gets a sacrificial lamb.
CH: I will be disappointed if Matt Brown doesn’t get his skull caved in. As a person who’s had to listen to TUF watching friends espouse the virtues of the super scary Matt Brown, I am ready to see him take a severe beating. Thankfully, as anyone who saw Kim demolish Jason Tan can attest to, the Korean should be more than able to put a hurting on an overmatched opponent. Kim will slap on a rear naked choke near the end of the first after a flurry of punches and elbows on the ground. From a betting standpoint, much of the value has already been bet out of the fight, so I’d be wary of putting any money down.
LC: Kim should crush the TUF rep. I know everyone was scared to death of Matt Brown on the show, but honestly he was no better than the fourth best guy in the house on the weakest-yet season of The Ultimate Fighter, and even that’s being generous. This one won’t make it out of the first. If we’re lucky there’ll be some highlight reel material here.
Tim Boetsch v Michael Pratt
DW: I can honestly say that Boetsch can be a monster if he wants to be, but the loss to Hammill was a tough loss and killed any momentum he could have had after the awesome win over Heath.
AC: Neither can strike worth a damn, so I’ll go with the stronger guy to grind it out on the mat.
CH: Two men will fight. Few will care. I will likely forget this fight ever happened fifteen minutes after the fact.
LC: I like Boetsch all out of proportion to his actual talents or accomplishments. I can’t tell if his striking is unorthodox or just bad, but it’s entertaining either way, and he’s a pretty good wrestler. Boetsch in a fight only I and the Boetsch family care about in any way.
Jason Lambert v Jason MacDonald
CH: Not too bad for a last minute addition. You could certainly do worse than Jason MacDonald as a late replacement. I still won’t believe Lambert can make 185 until he actually steps off the scale. MacDonald has a history of some stupid gameplans and he might be a little too willing too stand with the Punisher after admitting he was a fool for going to the ground with Maia in his last fight. That could be a serious mistake. Lambert’s submission defense is good enough to slip out of anything early and survive until MacDonald gets frustrated and tries to throw bombs with him. Lambert by TKO in the second. Not too bad of a bet at those odds either.
LC: Not bad? This is a better bout that some of the fights they actually planned in advance. Like Chris, I’m not convinced that Lambert can actually make 185 or be fully functional after doing so. If he’s 100%, though, I don’t think MacDonald’s got anything for him standing or on the ground. TKO in the second sounds about right to me.
Thanks to all of our contributors. Enjoy the fights, folks, and be sure to hit up the Total-MMA forums afterwards to discuss the mayhem.



